Curse

maraxusofk · Feb 19, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

I think GW can now be played 100% PvE or 100% PvP. I think the majority of the players play 80-90% of one, while fewer people straddle both aspects equally.

What do you want to play?

well im r4 koabd and soloed 90% of it, but im also r10 ha, r3 glad, r3 commander, and working on seriously getting better at gvg so i think i do both quite a bit.................

theres also quite a bit of other people with high end hero / champ titles and high end pve titles too in guild wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

There was this PvP guild I was once in, a few of the people were quite nice... Except for this corrupt little asstard. He got some offer "Kick the pve scrubs out of your guild and you'll get a place in my r9+ hardcore pvp guild" and went through with it. What makes you think I can like PvPers after that?

tell him rank doesnt mean jack squat and that rank scrubs are insecure about their own abilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

They just farm enough to get that stuff, flash their ebayed tigers, and run back off to PvP land.

really? cuz i was under the impression taht top 100 gvg'ers actually, ya know, know how to play the game before they can participate in top 100 gvg's. but hey, i could be wrong. maybe u can get away with that in ha, but not in gvg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I suggest standing in HA ID1, and saying that rank doesn't mean anything

i do this all the time while wearing my pve titles.

Snow Bunny · Feb 20, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

i do this all the time while wearing my pve titles.

Luxon supporter is the best one to wear.

Taurucis · Feb 20, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

tell him rank doesnt mean jack squat and that rank scrubs are insecure about their own abilities.

I'd love to do that, but the last thing I heard of him, the 3 PvP guilds he made in succession fell apart and he raged GW.

Sab · Feb 20, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

You probably don't know many PvPers. The last time I did HA for earnest, we lost in Underworld and instead of "gg" we got "This way to ascalon" "pve moar scrubz" "lol fail" and tiger spiked. My group ran... oh, about 7, 8 times... and only once did we get an honest "gg and gl" from the opposing team. The other teams were foulmouthed, arrogant, and just plain rude.

The PvPers I *know* don't trash talk. And I know plenty of them, thanks. If you're using scrubs in HA to judge the general mentality of PvPers, then you're probably going to get a bad impression. That's like me going to Pre-Searing Ascalon AD1 and wading through all the pedophiles lf cyber, trying to get an general impression of PvErs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

There was this PvP guild I was once in, a few of the people were quite nice... Except for this corrupt little asstard. He got some offer "Kick the pve scrubs out of your guild and you'll get a place in my r9+ hardcore pvp guild" and went through with it. What makes you think I can like PvPers after that?

I've met a bajillion retard PvErs who are just as rude. However, I don't use that to generalise PvErs because I know there are good and bad people, on both sides of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

They become trash talkers when they become top PvPers, I'd say. It's like the deal you get with those online FPS games, there's a bigger ego boost when you know that you just beat down real people and rub their faces in the dirt.

You probably don't know many PvPers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Yeah, but in PvE you can just map away, zone into the district, turn off chat... with PvP you'll have to face the same egomaniacs over and over again.

Turn off chat, go in DnD, or just accept there are idiots anywhere you go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

It's not confined to PvP. It's mostly in PvP. I get enough verbal abuse in real life. I don't want to put up with any arrogant 12 year old's crap online. I play GW to succeed, not win, and PvP is pretty much the You Lose arena.

I'm not convinced you can say that when you've only experienced the worse PvP has to offer.

Taurucis · Feb 20, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The PvPers I *know* don't trash talk. And I know plenty of them, thanks. If you're using scrubs in HA to judge the general mentality of PvPers, then you're probably going to get a bad impression. That's like me going to Pre-Searing Ascalon AD1 and wading through all the pedophiles lf cyber, trying to get an general impression of PvErs.

I stay away from all the "Jerk Hotspots" so to speak. With Presearing Ascalon AD1 I can just move to another district, and be on my way... but with HA I have to fight the same rude people over and over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I've met a bajillion retard PvErs who are just as rude. However, I don't use that to generalise PvErs because I know there are good and bad people, on both sides of the game.

I'd guess that you've probably met a bunch of mature, nice PvE'ers who aren't rude at all. The thing is, it's much harder to find mature PvPers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

You probably don't know many PvPers.

I'm thankful for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Turn off chat, go in DnD, or just accept there are idiots anywhere you go.

Well, I'm what you'd call an "idiot magnet" so to speak. They seem to flock to me for some unknown reason... Basically I'm just running along minding my own business when I just get this whisper "LAWL U SUX" for no reason... WTF????

I don't really like to get on DnD. I tend to have people who are waiting to complete trades with me so I don't really want to shoo them away. Plus, if one of the members in the alliance has a problem, he/she should be able to PM me instead of yelling out through GC/AC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I'm not convinced you can say that when you've only experienced the worse PvP has to offer.

It might be the bottom of the barrel that I'm meeting, but I don't want to slog through the scum again in order to have a fleeting chance of meeting the nicer people.

Phaern Majes · Feb 20, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

I see more people playing PvE than PvP (i.e. more districts, more people in them, etc...) So I'm going with that one. I'll say 90% E 10% P. Personally I do a bit of both though mostly PvE at the moment.

enter_the_zone · Feb 20, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

All I'm going to say is : Anyone claiming that playing with HA pugs is a nice time seriously needs some mental help.

GvG is massive fun, high end or not, whether you get rolled or not. If you haven't tried it, I suggest you do. Personally, I don't give a crap about Champ points because I don't have the time to devote to serious GvG nor can I always make GvG times or even dates, sometimes for weeks at a time. Running you own business is a RL time sink. So I only GvG for fun.

HA just isn't fun, and I don't mean the arseholes on the other team, I mean the dickhead on vent ON MY TEAM. The QQing noob-rushing warrior who was out of radar range of the team and gets slaughtered etc etc, ad nauseaum. If you can deal with that shit, you're a better person than me. Patience is not my strong suit.

Voltaic Annihilator · Feb 20, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

i played pvp at first and thought this game was bogus then once.istarted .to get into pve and found how to make easy money and bought whatever i awnted started .to love.it once i completex all the games and had whatever ineeded istarted.to.pvp and i usually played on my main which is my ele i loved my build that i used it pwned anyone so now i plAay 70% pve and 30% pvp cuz i still love my good ol pve

Bryant Again · Feb 20, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I'd guess that you've probably met a bunch of mature, nice PvE'ers who aren't rude at all. The thing is, it's much harder to find mature PvPers.

And you're still making such terrible generalizations. Where do you base these generalizations off of?

Gift3d · Feb 20, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Guild wars is often described as a CORPG (Competitive OnlineRPG), i'd say 70% PvP 30% PvE. Certainly more PvP in any case.

enter_the_zone · Feb 20, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Guild wars is often described as a CORPG (Competitive OnlineRPG), i'd say 70% PvP 30% PvE. Certainly more PvP in any case.

Actually, CORPG is Co-operative/Competitive Online Role Playing Game. Though the Competitive is often used stand alone and PVE is often considered a MMORPG which it really isn't, more like a MultiUser Coop RPG.

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

This has been a hotly contested issue for about 909878798 threads. Instead of this thread being a flamefest and getting closed, can't we come to the real answer once and for all??

I submit my evidence (which was submitted earlier in the thread but I repost for emphasis). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw

I made that video and I think its crystal clear. Until somebody gives me even better evidence, then I am going by what the founder states here, as opposed to in a press release that is simply made up to sell copies.

Now there is a lot of discussion about the fact that people can have fun playing PvE or PvP in this game, AND THAT IS TRUE...but it misses the major point of this argument completely!!

The major reason people should want to know how the game started is because PvE and PvP take away from each other! The BIGGEST reason why there are so many PvP players that are bitter towards PvE players posting on these forums is because they know that without PvE, Guild Wars PvP could have easily become one of the greatest competitive games of all time.

The PvE barriers are what made it so Guild Wars will now NEVER be legendary. PvE taking away resources and putting restrictions on PvP in so many ways (that I refuse to list here) is why Guild Wars will now NEVER be legendary. Guild Wars could have easily been the next Starcraft, or Counterstrike, or even greater than those, but Anet selling out to PvE made it so it will NEVER be considered that way again.

So what is Guild Wars now you ask? A PvE game of course, along with the likes of World of Warcraft, Everquest, and a line of other games. The difference is that it has no monthly fees. But once Guild Wars 2 comes out, Guild Wars 1 will cease to be remembered. All that I will personally remember about Guild Wars 1, is that it COULD have been legendary. That is the biggest tragedy of all.

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 20, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

without PvE, Guild Wars PvP could have easily become one of the greatest competitive games of all time.

While PvE does take resources, it is the balancing that needs to be properly implemented. Each time before balance players give their feedback and each time only a fraction of the suggestions is implemented. Sure, there is some progress, but this progress takes a long time. Do you recall how long it took to fix spirits and SR?

Would you expect them to sponsor a world tournament every year? Their business model would not work with PvP only. GW would not have survived without PvE.

enter_the_zone · Feb 20, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

This has been a hotly contested issue for about 909878798 threads. Instead of this thread being a flamefest and getting closed, can't we come to the real answer once and for all??

I submit my evidence (which was submitted earlier in the thread but I repost for emphasis). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw

I made that video and I think its crystal clear. Until somebody gives me even better evidence, then I am going by what the founder states here, as opposed to in a press release that is simply made up to sell copies.

Now there is a lot of discussion about the fact that people can have fun playing PvE or PvP in this game, AND THAT IS TRUE...but it misses the major point of this argument completely!!

The major reason people should want to know how the game started is because PvE and PvP take away from each other! The BIGGEST reason why there are so many PvP players that are bitter towards PvE players posting on these forums is because they know that without PvE, Guild Wars PvP could have easily become one of the greatest competitive games of all time.

The PvE barriers are what made it so Guild Wars will now NEVER be legendary. PvE taking away resources and putting restrictions on PvP in so many ways (that I refuse to list here) is why Guild Wars will now NEVER be legendary. Guild Wars could have easily been the next Starcraft, or Counterstrike, or even greater than those, but Anet selling out to PvE made it so it will NEVER be considered that way again.

So what is Guild Wars now you ask? A PvE game of course, along with the likes of World of Warcraft, Everquest, and a line of other games. The difference is that it has no monthly fees. But once Guild Wars 2 comes out, Guild Wars 1 will cease to be remembered. All that I will personally remember about Guild Wars 1, is that it COULD have been legendary. That is the biggest tragedy of all.

Without PVE, GW would have failed commercially ages ago. Very few PVE players would have purchased GW if it was PVP only, meaning only about 5% of the existing population would have bought GW. Please, try to apply logic before blaming PVE for the failure of PVP

maraxusofk · Feb 20, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune

While PvE does take resources, it is the balancing that needs to be properly implemented. Each time before balance players give their feedback and each time only a fraction of the suggestions is implemented. Sure, there is some progress, but this progress takes a long time. Do you recall how long it took to fix spirits and SR?

Would you expect them to sponsor a world tournament every year? Their business model would not work with PvP only. GW would not have survived without PvE.

i used to think that until i realized the concept of epeen. why do ppl still play team competitve games like css and starcraft even if they arent pros? for epeen and/or fun. if gw never had pve or any other dull concepts, the developers could have easily spent all their time balancing the game instead of releasing overpowered skills like they did with nf and do better balances. if there was only a gvg ladder and no ha (which is b/c once many ppl hit fame they will be too bored from ha grind to consider gvg), there might be a bigger dedicated crowd.

enter_the_zone · Feb 20, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

i used to think that until i realized the concept of epeen. why do ppl still play team competitve games like css and starcraft even if they arent pros? for epeen and/or fun. if gw never had pve or any other dull concepts, the developers could have easily spent all their time balancing the game instead of releasing overpowered skills like they did with nf and do better balances. if there was only a gvg ladder and no ha (which is b/c once many ppl hit fame they will be too bored from ha grind to consider gvg), there might be a bigger dedicated crowd.

I'd love to know where you think Anet have ever considered PVE when doing balances? Even once? Every balance Anet have ever done has been PVP based...

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Without PVE, GW would have failed commercially ages ago.

I'm not saying PvE should have never existed. Of course it should have existed and been a part of the game people could enjoy.

What I am saying is it should have been used to show people towards the greatness of the game. I don't mean pushing people into PvP. I mean PvE as the publicized part of the game that can eventually lead people into the "real" game.

Some people could even argue that IS how it started out. The problem however is that things changed, and PvE completely took over the game instead and compromised what used to be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Very few PVE players would have purchased GW if it was PVP only, meaning only about 5% of the existing population would have bought GW. Please, try to apply logic before blaming PVE for the failure of PVP

Your 5% number is assuming so much that I don't even want to go into it. Let's pretend it is accurate though. The reason for that is because the game was marketed and run completely wrong. If it was marketed correctly, the number would be much higher. If it was run correctly, that number would have stayed high.

GrimEye · Feb 20, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I made that video and I think its crystal clear. Until somebody gives me even better evidence, then I am going by what the founder states here, as opposed to in a press release that is simply made up to sell copies.

First off, evidence. This is where things get screwy: what the founder says and what the press release says are both evidence. One is a verbal statement and another an official company document in black and white, and both seem to contradict each other. It is a case of the right hand doing one thing and the left hand doing another. We are in discussion if GW was intended to be PVE or PVP for the simple reason ANET itself seem to be sending mixed signals. So what weigh you give to "evidence" is now in the province of subjective bias.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The major reason people should want to know how the game started is because PvE and PvP take away from each other!
[/B]

I agree somewhat. But if we look at past attempt at balances, PVP has taken precedence over than PVE. There was a lot of times where PVP balance gravely affected PVE, and I cant seem to remember instances where PVE balance gravely affected PVP. But feel free to remind me and correct me. But I agree, the PVP and PVE are link in someways that players in general are uncomfortable with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

[B]... because they know that without PvE, Guild Wars PvP could have easily become one of the greatest competitive games of all time.

All that I will personally remember about Guild Wars 1, is that it COULD have been legendary. That is the biggest tragedy of all.

I have always been wary of "COULD HAVE BEEN" and stating as if it is a reality. Dickinson say the greatest tragedy is living in a world of "if" and "could have been". Point is, "could have been" never happened so arguing about it could go either way, and both could be right and wrong at the same time.

But "COULD HAVE BEEN" could still be. GW1 dont have to die. When GW2 comes out, ANET could repackage it as "GW Arena", where the PVP strength of GW1 can brought to full potential. The structure and foundation are already there, just a bit more tweaking. "GW Arena" will be GW1 without what considered to be the crap of Faction, Nightfall, and GWEN.

My take.

MisterB · Feb 20, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

I'd love to know where you think Anet have ever considered PVE when doing balances? Even once? Every balance Anet have ever done has been PVP based...

[skill]Protective Bond[/skill]
[skill]Spirit Bond[/skill]
[skill]Edge of Extinction[/skill]

How about a dozen? That enough?

GrimEye · Feb 20, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

[skill]Protective Bond[/skill]
[skill]Spirit Bond[/skill]
[skill]Edge of Extinction[/skill]

How about a dozen? That enough?

Enter-the-Zone, there were some balances made in PVE. No doubt about that. My question for MisterB is, how gravely this PVE balances affected PVP?